On a radio programme today, which deals with listeners' reactions to what they've heard, a female listener rang in to berate a (male) doctor in an earlier programme who'd been talking about morning sickness during pregnancy, where he'd repeatedly used the word 'ladies' rather than 'women'. She found this condescending, insulting and demeaning.
I, myself, have always referred to 'ladies' because I feel that that word is more respectful than the other one. Actually, it's not the first time I've heard this viewpoint but she was so up-front and offended that I'm wondering if my viewpoint is a 'generation thing'. For the record, I also use the word 'gentleman' when talking to a third party about a particular male - and sometimes, when appropriate I'll say 'young man' (or young lady) which maybe compounds the original 'offence' - though I will concede that the word 'gentleman' has, for some, overtones of referring to a public toilet, as has the word 'ladies' - but I can't help that!
The word 'woman', because it contains in abbreviated form the word 'womb', makes me feel a tad uncomfortable to use in 'polite' conversation. But maybe my views can be dismissed as just those of an old-timer whose crusty attitude has been superceded by time and generally-accepted behaviour. After all, I'm still one of that dying breed who, while receiving glowering looks of disapproval from the men remaining seated, will give up my own seat on a bus or a train for a lady, oops, sorry - a woman!
5 hours ago
Sounds to me like the appropriate thing to call this female caller is "bitch."
ReplyDeleteNow, now! :-))
ReplyDeleteI'm with you Raybeard. These damn whippersnappers! ;)
ReplyDeleteIn today's society, a man has to be so guarded as to the words he utters, as someone (usually a woman) might be offended. If he spoke the word 'ladies' in a work enviroment, I'm sure there would be at least a million dollar lawsuit.
ReplyDeleteThanks, HD. Things just aren't the same now as they were in MY day. (Some may say "Just as well!")
ReplyDeletePaul, you are exactly right. Apart from the correct way to talk about..er, 'them', one never knows how to act.
Way back in the early 70s, at the time of rampant female liberation, I once opened a door and stood back to let a female pass through before me. As she went in, in a 'whisper' intended to be heard by me, she uttered "M.C.P."! (I think you can work that one out.) Yet, with this censure ringing in my memory, only a short time later I was again approaching a door at the same time as an elderly female, whom I let go before me. She pulled the door open and, with an acid smile, turned to me and said "Look - the door opens like this!"
Is it any wonder some of us just want to give up?
The caller was totally in the wrong and needs to issue an apology to the doctor she berated publicly. The terms ladies and gentlemen are not wrong to use, simple as that. I cannot think of a single context where they would be. Referring to a woman as a girl? Yes, that very wrong and I correct all coworkers who make that error.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sean. In this case, not only was the caller not a lady, she was most definitely a bitch. And that's putting it mildly.
Actually, Cubby, though I don't know how it is in America, I suspect that most people in this country today, M as well as F, would probably agree with her. Maybe not so in the past but I think my view is largely considered now to be outdated. On the BBC in news, current affairs and cultural programmes a deliberate point is made to use the word 'women'. Linguistic fashions do change - and I've got a number of peeves on that subject where the use of what was once considered poor or incorrect grammar has become widespread. (See a blog to come, maybe?)
ReplyDeleteI am a woman, the caller was a cunt. I like the terms ladies and women, not girls.
ReplyDeleteplenty of women get their panties in a knot over something this stupid; I call bullshit!
wanna piss me off? call me lazy or stupid or ugly, then watch me go apeshit on yo ass!
Anne Marie, I'm totally shocked! I didn't know such language could be used by, erm, 'ladies'. I'm not even sure what some of your words mean! ;-)
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ReplyDeleteIt's all about intent. Though in modern cultures I think the word "girl" being used to describe a woman would be terribly inappropriate(I'd say it is demeaning) on any standing, a term like "ladies" could be used and be perfectly appropriate. The most important thing to figure out is what that person intended to convey when they used a term and inform them of misuse in an appropriate manner if necessary. People make mistakes and people can learn from them. That's the beauty of a mistake. If someone misuses a word with intent to harm, well that's much less forgivable.
ReplyDeleteKyle, I only heard yesterday the BBC's principal commentator on female matters (she hosts a daily mid-morning radio programme called 'Woman's Hour') say how condescending she thought it was to be referred to as a 'lady'. You are correct in saying that it's the intent that is all-important. Unfortunately I find on this particular matter that there are females around who seem to look for any reason to take umbrage even if there was evidently no intention to slur.
ReplyDeleteThroughout my life in any dealings with females I feel I'm walking on egg-shells no matter what the subject I'm talking about. So many seem to go around analysing things that you've said in order to find something which they can offence at, something I don't (usually) find with men.